Vw id 4 versus audi q4

So I just went in and built a Q4-Etron RWD Premium plus with the sonos package. Trying to compare to my recent ID.4 RWD with gradient package. So the only difference I see is the premium sound, parking system plus. That costs about $3k more than my ID.4 and I have 20" wheels and a larger infotainment screen. I also priced out the top of the line quattro version and you get a heads up display and 20" wheels with nice rims too, but that is about $13k more than mine.

So I am wondering if and when this E-tron becomes available, does it siphon off demand for the ID.4? given the Audi brand name?

Certainly will - some people will prefer the Audi brand, and easily pay the difference. And even if you don't prefer the Audi brand, you may be willing to pay extra for some of the features - like the opening roof or the premium audio. Personally, I prefer the VW package, but I'm sure they'll sell every ID.4 and Q4 they can make!

Yes it will siphon off some demand. The Q4 has paddles with 3 levels of adjustable regen and I really like that, and an added 'dynamic mode' of regen that offers more regen than the ID.4. It also has a more traditional layout of buttons for many things that people complain about on the ID.4. And you can get many of the advanced features without also having to bundle in the sunroof like with the Pro S. And even though the MSRP is slightly more for the Q4 compared to the Pro S, it may lease for less due to Audi always has a higher residual value.

It might, and we looked at both in-depth, and I'm a current Audi Q5 owner that should be a target for the Q4, but we kinda liked the VW better.

The advantage that Audi may have, is that their cars tend to have higher residuals than VW's, so it's entirely possible that Audi lease price may be very competitive with the VW. I don't think it will bother VWAG however, as the Q4 is roughly the electrified version of the ICE Q3. It's the same rough dimensions at the Q3, but thanks to the flat platform is has the interior volume of the Q5. The upcoming Q6 will be the more direct replacement for the Q5 (and will supposedly have Q7 interior volume), but will probably be priced more like the Tesla Model Y (i.e. starting in the $50's).

There are trades between each though:

• Audi has buttons, where the VW doesn't (including a volume knob
• VW though has OTA where Audi doesn't
• VW includes most of their connected services for free for 2-3 years, Audi's are trials that last for 6-12 months and the cost is about 3x the VW cost to maintain (just the connected platform, not talking about the hot spot)
• and a number of other small things like only a partial light interior

The main trouble for a lot of people is that if history is any prediction, finding a truly base model Q4 will be next to impossible. Most Audi dealers will take something in the middle since it has the most margin and differentiation to the VW and others. So you CAN get one for $3k more, but reality tells me you are likely to see most on the lot cars being $5k-$7k more.

Yes it will siphon off some demand. The Q4 has paddles with 3 levels of adjustable regen and I really like that, and an added 'dynamic mode' of regen that offers more regen than the ID.4. It also has a more traditional layout of buttons for many things that people complain about on the ID.4. And you can get many of the advanced features without also having to bundle in the sunroof like with the Pro S. And even though the MSRP is slightly more for the Q4 compared to the Pro S, it may lease for less due to Audi always has a higher residual value.

Though to get the paddles you have to step up to the Premium Plus level, which starts at ~$47k before destination charges.

Don't forget a lot of the included bits on the VW are extras on the Audi... A Pro S AWD was $48,175. A Q4 50 Premium Plus with the Tech package starts at $52,700 but would require a $595 paint color, a $650 trailer hitch to equal the same configuration for a total of $53,350. But if you want the "goodies" like the premium audio that's in a $2,000 Technology Package for a total of $55,350 and if you want the head's up display you need to jump up to a Q4 50 Prestige (which includes the Technology package) for $56,200 plus the paint and hitch for a total of $57,445. Unfortunately, the Audi still doesn't offer a frunk or a 360-degree camera at any price, and it has slightly lower EPA range numbers (presumably due to the weight of the fancier interior). It seems like smart marketing to me, however - while it may siphon off some ID.4 sales, they're both attractively priced compared to their competitors (ID.4 vs Mach E and Model Y and Ioniq 5; Audi Q4 vs EQC and BMW iX3 and Model Y). I doubt they'll be lacking for customers for either.

Don't forget a lot of the included bits on the VW are extras on the Audi... A Pro S AWD was $48,175. A Q4 50 Premium Plus with the Tech package starts at $52,700 but would require a $595 paint color, a $650 trailer hitch to equal the same configuration for a total of $53,350. But if you want the "goodies" like the premium audio that's in a $2,000 Technology Package for a total of $55,350 and if you want the head's up display you need to jump up to a Q4 50 Prestige (which includes the Technology package) for $56,200 plus the paint and hitch for a total of $57,445. Unfortunately, the Audi still doesn't offer a frunk or a 360-degree camera at any price, and it has slightly lower EPA range numbers (presumably due to the weight of the fancier interior). It seems like smart marketing to me, however - while it may siphon off some ID.4 sales, they're both attractively priced compared to their competitors (ID.4 vs Mach E and Model Y and Ioniq 5; Audi Q4 vs EQC and BMW iX3 and Model Y). I doubt they'll be lacking for customers for either.

Yeah, you really have to scrub the exact things in each offer at every level to see where they are. They don't line up at any price point exactly. And Audi is likely to option more cars at the Premium Plus level than base as far as what's on lots. I'm also not sure how many Audi buyers will 'stand in line' to order a Q4 like there has been for the VW side if they want a lower trim level. So the likely car on the lot (when and if that ever happens again), in reality, is likely to be a much higher average sticker price than the VWs.

Different target markets and different offer options targeted at slightly different demographics.

Yep, for Audi the mid option range Premium Plus is the sweet spot for both consumers and dealers.

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The main trouble for a lot of people is that if history is any prediction, finding a truly base model Q4 will be next to impossible. Most Audi dealers will take something in the middle since it has the most margin and differentiation to the VW and others. So you CAN get one for $3k more, but reality tells me you are likely to see most on the lot cars being $5k-$7k more.

Based on current pricing which is, of course, subject to change, A RWD Q4 with technology package is just under $50K. A RWD ID.4 Pro S is just under $45K.

The delta is different for the AWD models but, for me, it is a no-brainer that the RWD Q4 would be a better choice;

Acoustic side glass
Better interior styling ( subjective) and quality
Better exterior styling ( again, subjective)
Drive selector in a better location. The VW location is awkward.
Better sound system

better infotainment software ( OTA upgrades not needed)
More buttons
I prefer the central armrest vs the minivan armrests in the VW

Based on current pricing which is, of course, subject to change, A RWD Q4 with technology package is just under $50K. A RWD ID.4 Pro S is just under $45K.

The delta is different for the AWD models but, for me, it is a no-brainer that the RWD Q4 would be a better choice;

Acoustic side glass
Better interior styling ( subjective) and quality
Better exterior styling ( again, subjective)
Drive selector in a better location. The VW location is awkward.
Better sound system

Much

better infotainment software ( OTA upgrades not needed)
More buttons
I prefer the central armrest vs the minivan armrests in the VW

Do not forget ventilated seats and leather options.

I have one reservation for ID.4 AWD PRO S and 1 for Q4 50. 50K vs 60K before incentives. Audi is a better choice IMHO, but most dealers already have a list of 20+ orders, and the expectation is to get a car in Q4/2022 only (at least @Austin, TX)

Don't forget Audi spec is completely different to VW. Eg to get a 12V socket in the trunk you need to buy the "Function Pack". Loads of other stuff you might take for granted in other cars will be buried in expensive "packs".

Do not forget ventilated seats and leather options.

I have one reservation for ID.4 AWD PRO S and 1 for Q4 50. 50K vs 60K before incentives. Audi is a better choice IMHO, but most dealers already have a list of 20+ orders, and the expectation is to get a car in Q4/2022 only (at least @Austin, TX)

Yes, it's going to be a long wait for the Q4 buyers. My Orlando dealer said they are now hoping to see 2 in April or May, but at least one of those will most likely be a showroom/test drive model. My guess is they will both be fully loaded.

Based on current pricing which is, of course, subject to change, A RWD Q4 with a technology package is just under $50K. A RWD ID.4 Pro S is just under $45K.

The delta is different for the AWD models but, for me, it is a no-brainer that the RWD Q4 would be a better choice;

Acoustic side glass
Better interior styling ( subjective) and quality
Better exterior styling ( again, subjective)
Drive selector in a better location. The VW location is awkward.
Better sound system

Much

better infotainment software ( OTA upgrades not needed)
More buttons
I prefer the central armrest vs the minivan armrests in the VW

Both the acoustic side glass and the sound system require you to choose option packages. They are not in the stock configurations. The acoustic glass is in the $1,800 convenience package on the base model. The sound system option requires you to move up to Premium Plus ($3k more) and then add the Technology Package at another $2,200. The base Audi doesn't have Adaptive Cruise control either BTW. And I believe the infotainment screen in the Audi is only available as a 10.25" version.

To get both, you are looking at a car that will sticker closer to $50k.

I get why people are attracted to the small difference of the base car. But honestly, for a cost-conscious customer, they are in reality going to be nowhere close in out the door pricing difference to what the website implies. That's because of what Audi US will choose as their average SKU vs what VW will. That will result in the average price difference being more like about $7k on average more expensive for the Audi.

Audi and VW do not see them as competition cars but as a continuum of offerings. Audi at this end of the market is going after the 'buy up to prestige market', where VW has made very clear that their targets are Toyota and Honda with the ID.4.

Do not forget ventilated seats and leather options.

Both the acoustic side glass and the sound system require you to choose option packages. They are not in the stock configurations. The acoustic glass is in the $1,800 convenience package on the base model. The sound system option requires you to move up to Premium Plus ($3k more) and then add the Technology Package at another $2,200. The base Audi doesn't have Adaptive Cruise control either BTW. And I believe the infotainment screen in the Audi is only available as a 10.25" version.

To get both, you are looking at a car that will sticker closer to $50k.

I get why people are attracted to the small difference of the base car. But honestly, for a cost-conscious customer, they are in reality going to be nowhere close in out the door pricing difference to what the website implies. That's because of what Audi US will choose as their average SKU vs what VW will. That will result in the average price difference being more like about $7k on average more expensive for the Audi.

Audi and VW do not see them as competition cars but as a continuum of offerings. Audi at this end of the market is going after the 'buy up to prestige market', where VW has made very clear that their targets are Toyota and Honda with the ID.4.

I fully agree with you. I liked what I saw in Audi Q4 50 (AWD, all packages in). about 10K more from ID.4 Pro S AWD (without the gradient package). Lot's of premium value.
For the main family car - definitely would choose Audi. For the best value for money car (as an additional car in a family) - VW is the best option IMHO.

For the main family car, I want to get Rivian

When I priced out what I cared about (AWD, no Gradient in VW or Sonos in Audi), I got a $4-5K difference. That's assuming MSRP on both. If both were available at sticker now, I'd take the Audi in a heartbeat. Several ifs, though.

I fully agree with you. I liked what I saw in Audi Q4 50 (AWD, all packages in). about 10K more from ID.4 Pro S AWD (without the gradient package). Lot's of premium value.
For the main family car - definitely would choose Audi. For the best value for money car (as an additional car in a family) - VW is the best option IMHO.

For the main family car, I want to get Rivian

I love the Rivian too! But no way it passes the spousal acceptance test. Also, at 70 mpge combined it’s crazy inefficient (the old “fat” eTron is like 75; my ID.4 is rated 93, and a Tesla Model Y is like 125)… would be a ton of fun however! And I love all the little details they’ve engineered in, like the gear tunnel, the crossbars that mount on the bed so you don’t need to climb to the roof to mount bikes, etc…

Has anyone heard any rumblings about when the Q4 is going to land in the US? I've called a few local dealers but they didn't have any details.

I realize the Q4 e-tron probably won't be available for delivery until 2023 for many, but have been trying to see if it's worth the jump from an ID4 Pro S AWD to a Q4 Prestige 50. Maybe I wasn't looking at the right places, but I haven't been able to find the safety features on the Q4. Is it safe to assume that whatever is on the ID4 Pro S should be on the Q4 Prestige (if not improved versions of those features)? Also, what's the warranty on the Q4?

GR

I prefer the Q4 interior myself. But sadly it is nowhere close to being delivered. Unlike the ID.4, the Q4 ordering is still through dealer and even the dealers have no idea when they will be able to order. I think it will siphon some sales from ID.4 but does that even matter, there are not enough being produced to satisfy demand for both groups.

Audi certainly does interiors exceedingly well and of course a step up from the ID.4. Having said that I find the ID.4 comparatively quite good, even tho' more hard plastic and leatherette 'only.'
This time around it was not worth the price delta to me and certainly not the wait time (14+ months now with the ID.4 but had I gone Q4 ... ???).

I also prefer the CUV sculpting of the ID.4 to the more SUV Q4 (basically a Q5 BEV imho). Now, if Audi had rather moved ahead with their "TT Offroad" concept I would have been all over that!

I would presume the battery warranty for the Q4 is the same "8-years assured to 70% capacity" as is the ID.4.

btw: I always found the Audi Premium Plus to be the sweet spot level (my FE is pretty much fully loaded but I would still equate it to P+ option inclusion). Just not enough bang for the buck for me in the Prestige, especially as same typically had options I didn't need. I compare P+ to buying one notch down from the top of the line Apple product as a similar ROI sweet spot.

I realize the Q4 e-tron probably won't be available for delivery until 2023 for many, but have been trying to see if it's worth the jump from an ID4 Pro S AWD to a Q4 Prestige 50. Maybe I wasn't looking at the right places, but I haven't been able to find the safety features on the Q4. Is it safe to assume that whatever is on the ID4 Pro S should be on the Q4 Prestige (if not improved versions of those features)? Also, what's the warranty on the Q4?

GR

I prefer the Q4 interior myself. But sadly it is nowhere close to being delivered. Unlike the ID.4, the Q4 ordering is still through dealer and even the dealers have no idea when they will be able to order. I think it will siphon some sales from ID.4 but does that even matter, there are not enough being produced to satisfy demand for both groups.